A man has been sentenced to prison for armed robbery. He admits that he's guilty, but argues "I will never do anything like that again. I'm not insane, and I'm not a danger to society. I support a wife and 3 children, and losing me as the family breadwinner will be very damaging to them. Also, almost no one would ever have to know about this; you can keep the incident out of the news and no one but you will ever know that the crime was committed. Therefore, you should release me."
Assuming that you could know for certain that all of his statements, above, are true, should you release him? If you think he should still go to prison, say why you think so.
Please leave at least one thoughtful, considered comment of your own, and respond to at least one of your colleague's comments in a thoughtful way.
For the good of the wider community it is important to have a system of punishment that is fair and the same for all. We have to make punishment decisions based on the crime not on the arguments of the individual who committed the act. Punishment such as imprisonment for violent crime is also important to send the message to the wider community that criminal behavior is not condoned. Thus I would imprison the man in this example just as I would an other individual who willingly committed armed robbery.
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ReplyDeleteWe, as a society, are in need of an unbiased justice system. Turning a blind eye to this situation would just further show weakness in this system. Agreeing with Carolyn, I also believe that a message needs to be sent to society that criminal behavior does not go unpunished. Even assuming that his statements are true is no guarantee that he will abstain from committing another crime again. Obviously, he didn't weigh the critical position he has in his family, against the consequences of his actions carefully enough to make an ethical decision. He knew the consequences of his actions, so therefore he should be punished for his actions under the law.
ReplyDeleteSo this man commits armed robbery and he expects to be set free? Even though he can guarantee it won't happen again, I feel that it would be unjust to let him get away with it. I understand that he has a wife and children, but he should have thought of them before he decided to commit this crime. If someone gets caught selling marijuana, that person gets locked up. This man committed a more serious crime, then why shouldn't he get punished also? Also, he said "I will never do anything like that again." So this is leaving open a loophole as to where he can commit other crimes that are unlike the robbery. If you don't crack down on every person that breaks the law, then what example are you setting for the now and the future?
ReplyDeleteIn reading this example the accused should do some time in prison. There was obviously a crime committed which should be punishable based on our justice system. although it seemed to be an act of desperation, nobody knows the struggles he goes through being the sole bread winner for his family. Furthermore i do agree with AdrianC we do need an unbiased justice system but we have to take a deeper look into his mind set as the sole bread winner and why did he choose the route of criminal behavior verses other means of financial stability.
ReplyDeleteI feel that the man should still go to prison. He knew what he was doing was wrong and punnishable under the law and he still did it. Most likely this crime was planned out, and if it was that means that he had time before he committed the armed robbery to think about what he was goig to go,and what he was getting himself into. Maybe he should have thought a little bit more about what would happen to his family and of the extremly bad example he was setting for his children. I do feel bad that his wife and children will suffer for what he did, But i do agree with AdrianC that he knew the consiquences of his actions, so he should serve his time just like everyone else.
ReplyDeleteI have mixed feelings, I believe he should go to prison. But if he doesnt he should have to do some type of community service and be put on probation and only be allowed to go to work and back home
ReplyDeleteI agree with Greg, he should serve some time in prison but scare him by making him think he is serving 5 years but really give him 30 days to give him time to think about what he did and hopefully he will wake up and realize that there are other ways to obtain money legally. Maybe sell belongings that he has no use for, cut back on bad habits, and only spend money on things that are necessary to live. Just because he has a problem in life doesn’t mean he can walk away or take shortcuts. Problems are learning experiences meant to be solved in the right way not in the wrong way.
ReplyDeleteIf this man's freedom would relay in my hands, based on my value system, and morals, he'd go to prison. He has responsibilities in many aspects of his life as all we do, however, it is my belief that whatever our reasons right or wrong, the consequences will and should be the same.
ReplyDeleteWhether he was stealing to help his family or to benefit himself, the act was armed robbery, as for my belief the consequence is prison.
I'd also raise in the society awareness and motivate people to make similar decisions on what's fair.
I believe in the justice system strongly, but there are circumstances to consider in this sanerio.If he's already sentanced and sent to prison then he can say whatever he wants. It wont matter!Considering the intensity and seriousness of the crime, on one hand which out weighs the other, he should pay for his crime! But on the other hand what if this individual was your father that was trying to putfood on the table? And this was his only resource he can think of during that limited time of need.(i mean a good man with three kids would think twice right?) Would you then consider the justice system for extended punishment? If you knew your father was a good man and you were one of the kids he was supporting, and understand why he did it and know for sure he wont do it again? would u still consider harsh punishment?
ReplyDeleteWith the severity of his crime I would say put him in jail but when it happens to a person
thats close to you i seek liniency. Not that he gets a free get out of jail card but to be lenient with a phychological examination to understand his mental stability during his course of crime before sentencing.feed back please!
Some really good points raised so far! I want to pick out some important threads that have been started so far and see if we can develop them.
ReplyDeleteCarolyn and Adrian both make the argument that there's an important element of fairness involved: that is, that one of the fundamental things about a legitimate system of justice has to be that it operates the same for all people. They're concerned that, even if word never gets out, the system itself is corrupted if we make exceptions for someone based on the fact that he has a compelling story, makes an articulate argument, or seems sympathetic.
Kaeian points out that there's another element to the issue of fairness: we're often willing to consider mitigating circumstances (that is, circumstances that lessen the severity or badness of the crime) when someone close to us does something wrong. We know that person, and know that they're a decent, complex human being, and so we assume that they must have had reasons (however misguided) for doing whatever they did. With others, we often lose that empathy and insist on following rules to the letter. What do you think about this? Should the empathy we have for our friends be better extended to everyone?
Many of you are concerned that it's important to punish wrongdoing, regardless of the circumstances under which it was committed. Why do you think it's important? Joe offered a suggestion that the punishment should serve as a learning experience. So ask yourselves: why do you think it's important that someone be punished for wrongdoing, assuming we could know that the person would not commit a crime again even if we didn't punish him?
Great discussion so far, everyone.
lisett2008 said “But if he doesn’t he should have to do some type of community service and be put on probation and only be allowed to go to work and back home.”
ReplyDeleteI agree with this statement and believe that some sort of punishment should be set for this individual. Should he go to jail, no. He should have to confront the company or the individual he robbed. Then allow the victim a form of justice that is right.
I would like to point out that this was an armed robbery. He must have had some sort of weapon on him in order to do the act of robbery. He is keeping a weapon around his wife and children. He might be the reason why his family is getting by but he is putting his family in harms way. This family needs help or this man would of not committed the crime.
I feel that just because a man supports a wife and children but claims to not be a danger to society should get away with armed robbery. To raise the fact about his family is no excues. He knew exactly what he had done and the possible consequences. If you do the crime you do the time as any other man would. However I would not give the man a harsh sentence considering that he has learned his lesson. While he's doing his time I would hope that he will learn to make better decisions so that he will continue to be the breadwinner for his family.
ReplyDeleteI belive the man should still go to prison because regardless of who he supports or who depends on him he still commited the crime and should be punished. It is unfortunate for the dependents, but the criminal should have thought of that before commiting the crime. Why should this certain individual only get a slap on the hand when similar scenarious to his occur so often?
ReplyDeleteIt seems to me that because the guy has been sentenced to prison, and he admits that he’s guilty, he should serve his sentence. Hopefully the punishment he is given will deter people from committing similar crimes themselves. Although, I did like Ksaelee’s comment about “What if it’s your father.” It seems to me that people don’t care much about strangers, but the instant someone they know and care about is affected, they become passionate and involved. It’s like familial and emotional bonds cause people to become irrational. Even my opinion wavers when I picture myself as the armed robber facing sentencing, or a family member as the armed robber. What if it was you? You’d want to be set free. Another thought: what about the victim of the crime? Are they part of the equation? Do they deserve closure?
ReplyDeleteI’m kind of twisted in what I would do but as of right now i wont to make him go to jail for at least 6 months. Then it’s a must he is on probation for a year because he tried to rob somebody with a gun. He’s going to have to do community service or a year but only on weekends. I do agree with what a lot of people are saying he should take responsibilities and get what he deserves.
ReplyDeleteWhen a crime of armed robbery is committed, no one should go unpunished becuase that would lead to an unjust system. We can't live in a society where some people are allowed a second chance, while other's are being sent to prison because it is unfair and unreasonable. Although the man does have a family to support, he should have thought about the consequences of committing armed robbery and how it would effect himself, as well as his family. Overall, the man is responsible for his actions and needs to take full responsibility for them. I agree with Adrian and believe that the man should still be punished for his actions and go to prison.
ReplyDeleteProfessor Boyle asks why is punishment important if the person admits his wrongdoing and we can assume they would never do it again. One response is that punishment is not only about reform of the criminal but it also serves as an assurance to victims that the criminal has had to face hardship as a result of their criminal act. For example the victims of the armed robber in the homework scenario may feel safer and have a greater sense of justice knowing the man who victimized them is in prison rather than bumping in to him on their next shopping trip at the mall.
ReplyDeleteWhat if every criminal said they will never do the crime again and the authorities let the criminals go? The U.S. would be the most dangerous place in the world. That is why no crime should not go unpunished. Even if they have a family that they support, like for example this man who committed armed robbery. He knew exactly what he was doing because like he said he does not have a mental illness, like wise he knew his consequences. However, since the man claims he is guilty, I think they should lower his sentence to prison. Thus, when he is release early he should just get a 1 year probation. In addition, he should be given several different resources to help him support his family. Maybe that is why he did the crime in the first place. He may needed more money for his family, being the only one who was the breadwinner of his family.
ReplyDeleteQuite a few of you are suggesting alternative sentences, like probation, community service, etc. That's interesting; would you suggest that as a general change in the way we treat convicted criminals, or do you think it's particularly suited to the man's situation? I'd love to hear more about your thoughts, there.
ReplyDeleteAlso, would anyone like to add to the arguments we have about why punishment is important even when it's not necessary as a deterrant, and the criminal is not a danger to anyone? Carolyn suggests that it's important for the victims to feel safe, and joe has suggested that he won't have learned from the experience unless he suffers something.
Carolyn, if the man promises to move away from the town in which he committed the robbery, would that change your view? (The victim would never have to come in contact with him.) What about everyone else?
Great job, everyone.
lexygomez @ 4:27 -
ReplyDeleteDon't forget that we said to assume that you could know for certain that the man would never commit another crime. If we knew that all the prisoners in the U.S. would never commit a crime again if we let them out, would it be dangerous to release them?
I believe it is important to uphold the law.Although the man is in a sad situation and the end of the day wrong is wrong. There are so many outreach programs for families in this situation i believe the man could found another way.Also for him to be using his family as a sympathy card thats who he should have been thinking of,If he new he was their only source of income and stability then y would he put them in jepordy like this, Basically u do the crime u pay the time!!
ReplyDeleteDespite the fact that he has a family, and is in a tough patch with them, he shouldnt have dealt with theirs issues the way that he did, or put his family in an even deeper situation because he has a chance of being out of the picture, because he got caught for armed robbery. I think he should go to prison, because of what he did, at least he'd know that's not the way to deal with tough times.
ReplyDeleteWhen i first read this i thought it would be the most beneficial thing to do to just overlook this man's crime for the benefit of his family assuming that everything he said was true. But then i thought about it a little more and doing so would only create the beginning of our society's system falling out. we have consequences for people who commit crimes and by letting one person get away with a crime and seeing how easy it was would only be the beginning of it starting to happen more and more and in the end, instead of helping a family you will have done the opposite by making society unorganized, unstructured, and free of any rules and regulations, most likely resulting in havoc. so even though it may seem like the harder choice, in the end, it is better if we stick to the rules we made in the first place that make our society go round.
ReplyDeleteAdriana R.
Lets say his statements were true, I would look at his criminal background and if it is his first offense then I would just give him minimal punishment. But if he were to do a crime like this again I would give him maximum punishment and most likely hang him because he committed a crime again without learning from his previous one, made other people suffer for his action, and not only that he lied about his statement.
ReplyDeleteIf all the criminals in the U.S. would never commit a crime again then I would let them go but with some supervision, it is dangerous but I believe in second chances but if they were to do a crime again then my punishment would be what I said earlier.
I think he should still go to jail. He's only saying he won't do it again because he's been caught. Who knows, he could've tried to do it again if he wasn't caught right?
ReplyDeleteProfessor Boyle, one would have to be psychic to know for certain that the man would never commit another crime. lol
Also want to add that punishment is important for any type of wrong doing, even if the criminal is not a danger to anyone, because it's what keeps society running today. It would be havoc , if say, robbers and criminals we're let free without any kind of punishment. Then kids might start doing it too because they'll learn that there's no punishment, so why shouldn't they? They won't get in trouble. So over the years things would get pretty chaotic.
I like everyone's point of veiw, it's making my mind think like crazy!!lol
ReplyDeleteSociety has definite limitations for certain people. Some people have to do what they have to do to provide for their family and go to extreme measures... My grandmother for example was so poor rasing my mother and my aunts and uncle, that she would wear keep 1 pair of shoes year round and put cardboard in them so they would last and my grandmother never had to rob a bank. This scenario also really depends on what side of the coin you are looking at, ( kind of reminds me of that Denzel movie John Q) a lot of people get away with stealing and nothing is done to them but that doesnt make it right. Its unfair that the poor are always the ones punished and the rich can get away just for being rich. Yet bottom line if this guy really cared about his family he wouldnt jepordize everything with the possibility of going to jail. You can't provide for your family locked up.
ReplyDeleteHere's my question. What were his thoughts while commiting the crime? Was he thinking that the economy is so bad right now that he had to go out and rob someone to get by. What did he take?
ReplyDeleteI think he should definately go to prison, not only did he commit a crime, but he was also armed. He could've really hurt someone. According to this man, he claims to be the "family breadwinner." Is this way of earning his bread legal or is he out on the streets selling drugs and anything else that he can to earn fast cash? He commited the crime, he should definately do the time. His family will be the ones hurting and at a loss, but that is nobody else's fault but his. He should have thought long and hard about the consequences of his actions before he commited them. Also if he did it once, who's to say that he won't do it again?
Although the man guarantees he will not commit the crime again, he should still be punished. Armed robbery is the use of a firearm in the commission of a crime. Carrying a firearm carries a sentence of 18 years in the commission of a crime and robbery carries another 8-10 years. I feel that he should go to jail simply because he used a firearm in a commission of a crime. He shouldnt have put his family at risk or in a situation like this so therefore I feel if you committ the crime you have to rightfully be punished just as any other person would if they get caught committing the same crime. Therefore he deserves to serve time in prison.
ReplyDeleteI do have to agree with Serena on the fact that the man did say that he would never do anything like that again, but he will probably do something else. But I would also like to add; In my opinion, I believe that he will commit a crime just like that again, but go about better ways of doing so in order to not get caught next time.
ReplyDeleteI am not sure how I would go about this. The fact is that he did commit a robbery, but he pleads that he has to support his family with work etc...but the point of this that makes me lean to that he should go spend jail time is that he commited an "armed" robbery, meaning that he robbed some kind of weapon. It makes me think that he has bad itentions and is a trouble maker that he went into the act of robbing in the first place, robbed a weapon, and makes me ask why did he want to steal the weapon? To wrap it up, I believe he should go to jail, because first of all he did commit a robbery and he did steal some sort of weapon meaning he might use it for some other kind of plan.
ReplyDelete-By the way my name is Jerico Pepa. I will make a google email soon, this I posted by my AIM sn.
he made a decision to commit robbery, he is an adult and being the sole bread winner for his home he should have known better that bad actions have punishments and so he should be punished and jailed. Yanira T.
ReplyDeleteWhat did he rob in the first place? Was it diapers, food, or money? Would it even matter what this man robed or how he did it? He must really need what ever it was that he robbed or he would not have committed the crime. Is it really a crime to take something from someone that you need more than them in order to survive?
ReplyDeleteThinkin really hard about this i came up with the conclusion that i would let him go. Booking this man in jail would do much more harm than than it would benefit the community by taking him of the street. Putting this man in jail would cost taxpayers alot of money and jails are already over booked as it is. The other thing that really touches me in the situation is the affect it would have on the wife and children. The children would grow up angry without a father present and end up following his footsteps.
ReplyDeleteLooking at Valeries views she has very good points and even though her opinion is very different from my own i can agree with alot of things she is saying. Somebody could have gotten hurt but the fact of the matter is nobody got hurt. It also states that we know this man will not try to do any type of crime like this so we cant just assume that he'll do a different crime. But valerie has some excellent points.
ReplyDeleteGood points about the wording of the question, thanks for pointing it out. It's meant to get rid of the worry that the man will continue to commit crime, but I see that you might think the wording is deliberately tricky. I'll change it next time!
ReplyDeleteI also think that part of the man's point is that, while it might be fair for him to suffer for his crime, it's not fair that his family has to suffer (his children, at least, certainly had nothing to do with choosing him as a father). So, based on the kind of utilitarian calculations that many of you were attracted to in class on Tuesday, IF you could know for certain that he would not commit any crime again (so that he'd cause no further harm to society), and IF it would devastate his family for him to be put in prison, and IF you could hush it up so that other people would not get the idea that crime pays, why not let him go? It would be helping 4 people (his wife and children), and his argument is that it harms no one.
I believe that he should serve some type of sentence with a chance of early release. Because he committed a crime and deserves to live wit the consequences.
ReplyDeleteHe should go to prison regardless of if he is the breadwinner of his family. He broke the law and he knew that. He also knew that he was putting his future as well as his family's future in jeopardy when he decided the rob the bank.
ReplyDeleteWhen most people break the law or do something wrong there is always a reason for their actions but regardless their reasons they did wrong and they need to face their consequences. If supporting a family is an excuse to escape consequences they it would leave the door open for almost anybody to not be held for their actions even if they never did it again.
am just testing
ReplyDeleteThe first three reasons that were given as to why this man shouldn't be imprisoned almost would have convinced me to keep him out of jail. But when I thought over the fourth question I came to the conclusion that no i would not let this man free and indeed send him to jail.
ReplyDeleteAnd this is why: this man is asking me to take his word and that he won't commit a crime again. But he has already committed a crime, his word is no longer valid. If he would to be let free, he is not being honest about himself to his wife, which in my point of view is a huge mistake in a marriage. And lastly because he is asking a person of authority to go against their job obligations and non the less their morals. Although it is said that it would be able to be kept a secret I would know that I did something wrong in attempt to to satisfy another person. Although it might sound selfish no I would not free this man.