Forum Discussion 1: The Handmaid's TaleThink about the questions below for a few minutes, at least, before answering. Give a thoughtful, detailed answer to one of the questions below. Explain your reasoning in some detail. Give two thoughtful, detailed responses to your colleagues.
Your discussion contributions should all be posted by midnight on Sunday, September 6.
- One thing that stands out for a lot of people is the fact that the people running the handmaid's program are all women. What motivations do you think those women might have? Why would they work so hard to maintain the program and indoctrinate other women?
- Imagine that it's ten years later in the world of the film, and the government has succeeded in suppressing the rebels. Their program of re-education has been very successful, so that a very large majority of the population, including the handmaids, accept and even support the program. Would there be anything wrong with it? Why or why not?
- Kate believes that she has a moral imperative to try to escape and raise her child in freedom, even though attempting escape is extremely risky, with a strong chance that she'll be killed (and the fetus along with her). Why do you think she believes the risk is worth it? Do you agree or disagree? Say why in detail.
My answer, based on the 3rd question.....
ReplyDeleteI think that no government can hold a citizen against their will, unless there is a criminal record. If I was in Kate's place, I'd also try to escape. Kate, as anybody else has the right to raise her children wherever she likes. About the risk, I consider it worthy because you're never alone, there is always someone willing to help, and together could be a bit easier. Before taking the decision of escaping is reasonable to think of the consequence if something goes wrong (as being killed), but if freedom is reach, all of the struggles will pay off.
~Daniel
My answer to question 3.
ReplyDeleteKate shows throughout the film that she does not agree with the Totalitarian society that exists in Gilead and thus escape is worth the risk so that her child could grow up in a society that does not have total control over individuals and their private lives.
In Kate's conversation with the Commander toward the end of the film, the Commander tries to justify the society by stating that people needed to be "cleaned" and further explained that they had no common purpose, nothing to fight for and that no one knew how to feel anything. In one of the only times when Kate actually uses words to voice her dissatisfaction in the film, Kate powerfully responds to the Commander that she did not need cleaning. This line really sums up why Kate is so strongly against the society and refuses to be indoctrinated - she did not believe that there was anything wrong with the way she was before Gilead controlled her. I believe this desire not to be controlled is the main reason why she would risk her own death and the life of her unborn child to escape.
I agree that freedom would be worth the risks. Gilead society did not only want to control Government but it also took total control of personal lives. The society manipulated people to be complacent by using indoctrination, punishment and small rewards. Gilead took away individuality. It forced religion. People were assigned roles. White men dominated society. And let's not forget how women were treated as second class citizens on so many levels. Definetely not a place I want to live or raise my child.
Good points, Daniel and Carolyn.
ReplyDeleteClass, Carolyn has provided you with a nice example of a response that provides a lot of detail and explanation of reasoning. Try to give something like this level of detail in your response. You can come back and add more, later, if you're not satisfied with the level of detail and explanation you provided, or if you think of more points you'd like to add.
Thanks for getting us started, y'all!
Answering #3: Kate's survival instincts broaden when she becomes pregnant, and sees that the things around her will also affect her child. She is basically a slave, and treated like a prostitute, and she doesn't want her baby to be in that sort of environment. Since she already lost her daughter and can't find her, she probably wants to raise this child as her own. She is also in a predicament with the commander because he's infatuated with her, but may not be the one who got her pregnant, it could be the soldier. Being a handmaid, she is only supposed to sleep with the commander she is given to, otherwise she will be hanged and killed because it is considered a deadly sin. With the wife knowing about her sleeping with the soldier, and her knowledge of the husband's infatuation with Kate, Kate is in a position where her plug could be pulled at any second. She puts herself in a worse position by killing the commander and escaping. Now she's wanted, she must stay in isolation in order for the soldier, herself, and her child to survive. I believe the risk is worth it because she will be able to live free rather than go through an every day routine for something she doesn't believe in. She was living a nightmare, and now somewhat at piece although she doesn't see the soldier all the time. Even though she is all alone, neither her nor her child are enslaved.
ReplyDeletedaniel said "I think that no government can hold a citizen against their will, unless there is a criminal record" and I also feel the same way. But even if you were a crimanal you shouldnt be forced to believe in a certain religion. These women were drugged and wher used as sex objects. The only way they were able to live a better life was to give birth for one of the controlling families and those lives were almost just as bad cause you were still a prisoner you just ate and slept a little better.
ReplyDeleteCarolyn said "Gilead took away individuality. It forced religion. People were assigned roles. White men dominated society".She brings up a good point in that White men ruled society. I sit and think about how the only ethnic people i saw in the whole film were getting pulled away in a prisoner truck. So if white powerful husbands and wives did this totheir own people think about how a black women was treated in this senario they were probably just killed right of the bat.
ReplyDeleteAnswering #3—
ReplyDeleteA moral imperative is “a principle originating inside a person's mind that compels that person to act” (Wikipedia).
So to look at it from a distance to get the bigger picture, the government of Gilead is in a totalitarian state, and woman are treated as inferior beings in society. They are widely used by the government for reproduction and other positions that offer servitude to higher beings in society (like commanders for example). Woman who either refuse or are not able [to reproduce] are either tried for capital offense and hung, or sent to the colonies to work ‘till they slowly die.
On a couple of good points already demonstrated by my classmates, I agree with them. The Republic of Gilead did take away personal identity, it did take away freedoms, and took away the value of individual human life. Woman were valued mostly on the means of what they were able to produce biologically, and nothing more. Kate became aware of her situation once becoming a handmaid and witnessing the executions and visiting the doctor. Not only was she on the edge of execution at the wives’ hand for sleeping with someone other the commander, but was also part of a vicious cycle. Once her child was born, it was going to be placed in the hands of someone else. That child, depending on its gender, was going to be a soldier in the line of fire, or quite possibly a handmaid who would go through the same degrading process as well. At this point I think Kate, in her righteous belief, decided that her child should be raised in an environment where they can have an identity and freedom to make positive decisions unabated. That right there, was worth the risk for her.
I agree with that notion. I know for a fact that I wouldn’t want to raise a child (esp. a girl) in a society where a higher force dictates what they can, can’t, and what they are supposed to do for the rest of their lives. Every being should be entitled to their right to live a life as decided by their own means and morals, as long as they cause no harm to anyone’s well-being.
My answer to number 2.
ReplyDeleteNo, because everyone accepts and supports it so that means that they are happy with the program.
AdrianC said Every being should be entitled to their right to live a life as decided by their own means and morals, as long as they cause no harm to anyone’s well-being. I totally believe this way, if an individual wishes to do wrong then by all means do it as long as it only effects the individual and not us.
Daniel said "I think that no government can hold a citizen against their will, unless there is a criminal record". Everyone has at least one criminal act and some do it daily and since they were not caught then there would be no record. What would happen to the world if everyone was caught?
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteTo question #1
ReplyDeleteThe Sisters that ran the handmaids program in the movie The Handmaids Tale ran the program as if it was a zoo and their soul mission was the conservation of human kind.
In a way the Sisters that run the program became trapped by their own demand to have a baby and possibly their inability to have one left them to push it on to other women to have a baby. Disease, war and loss of child birth are causing man kind to become extinct. The Sisters try to restore hope of furthering human kind by forcing these women into these programs like, Kate. Kate is a wild and rare animal in the eyes of the Sisters who run the program. So Kate and her daughter are hunted like the Indian Rhino. They are forced into facilities and demanded that they perform sexual tasks for the sake of their kind. They are made to believe that everything they need would be there for them as long as they do everything that is asked of them.
The ritual when Kate’s friend had a baby was a big deal for the Sisters, the family, and the rest of the community. Just like in Indian Rhino is wild and rare, in Tampa’s Lowry Park Zoo an Indian Rhino was born and this statement was made,
"The Indian rhino birth at Tampa’s Lowry Park Zoo is a significant event not just for Florida, but for the species throughout the world”
Randy Rieche
http://www.floridaattractions.org/en/rel/674/
I like Star's comparison of The Sisters with zoo keepers trying to keep a rare breed of animal alive. I can see how this attitude would keep the women motivated but I do wonder if The Sisters believed this in the beginning or if it is a belief that they came to after being indoctrinated. It makes me wonder what were the motivations of The Sisters when they agreed to become sisters and why did they not resist being sorted into roles.
ReplyDeleteI think the ritual ceremony that you bring up is also important. These celebrations act as reinforcement that the women are doing the right thing for the greater good and would continue to motivate them to stick with the program. I like how you also mention that these are techniques that we use today (as in your Rhino example) to make others believe in our causes.
I think it's Joe who says above in answer to question 2 "No, because everyone accepts and supports it so that means that they are happy with the program."
ReplyDeleteWhen I read the question it says a large majority agree with the society - not everyone. Does this mean that it is OK to ignore the wants & desires of the minorities in Gilead?
It also says that they accept the program but that does not mean that they are happy with it. Their acceptance may be more motivated by fear than happiness.
Shea S.:
ReplyDelete#3. I think that Kate believes escape is worth the risk of getting herself and her fetus killed because her current quality of life is so poor that living a life of uncertainty on the run from the program would be better than living the way that Handmaids do. I would agree with this. There is a difference between living your life for yourself, and living your life for someone else (against your will). The possibility of death is worth the possibility of freedom. Her quality of life (freedom) at the program was very poor. She had to face regular abuse, both mental and physical. She had to participate is group murder. And even if she did successfully birth her child, it would only have been taken away from her, just like her first child. She would still be a prisoner in an unfair society, with nothing to show for it. But, if she runs, and somehow escapes, she would be free. Yes she’d be living a life without the benefits of the program, without a regular source of food and drink and medicine. But shed also be doing it on her own; making her own schedule for sleeping, eating, raising her own child the way she wanted to. She’d be in total control for better or for worse.
No its not ok but if the majority of the society is supporting it then what are the chances of winning. If they where to go against the society then they are rebels and according to the question, the government has succeded in suppressing them.
ReplyDeleteThey may not be happy with it but they have been re-educated so they are disciplined to control there wants and desires and it also shows that outside stimulus was contronled (magazines, programs on tv) or other things that cause people to want unnecessary things ( nice clothes, fancy cars, etc.). People are controled by tv and what tv says is good the people want to have. So with that controled peoples wants and desires have been limited.
They have been motivated by fear and by doing that, peoples attention is more towards fear than there wants and desires.
Feedback please asap
Lots of good points in your comment, Star. It's important to keep in mind how compelling the circumstances must have seemed to people, and the comparison to zoo husbandry brings up an excellent point about how easy it is to dehumanize others when we feel passionately about something. The color-coding of the women helps, as well, as it marks everyone and keeps them all distinct.
ReplyDeleteJoe521, you raise a good question about free will and consent. Given the intense indoctrination programs Gilead is running (we're meant to understand that Kate is in the program for quite some time before she's ready to go out to an "assignment"), to what extent can it be said that everyone "agrees with" the program?
Daniel, Carolyn, Chris, and Adrian: you all put a great deal of emphasis on the value of freedom, to the point that it's worth dying for. Say more about why you think it's so important a principle.
Terrific discussion so far, everyone - thanks for your contributions!
Hi all,
ReplyDeleteI don't have access to your profiles, so if you want me to email you with feedback, include your address in your comment - you can write "at" instead of "@" and "dot" instead of "." to keep spambots from picking up your address.
Also, if your pen name doesn't include your real name and last initial, would you sign your post, and include at least a last initial? It takes forever to keep referencing multiple sources to come up with proper names to give you credit for your work.
Thanks, keep up the great comments.
Good point about the mental damage brought about by the program, Shea. Being forced to participate in the punishments must be brutal, unless one is convinced that they're just.
ReplyDeleteWhy do you think they have the handmaid's conduct the punishments? (that's for everyone, not just Shea.)
Shea S.:
ReplyDeleteIn response to Daniels comment about “if freedom is reached, all of the struggles will pay off”, I agree with this. Any kind of life lived free would be preferable to living under monstrously strict rules like in the Handmaiden program. Every mentally capable adult deserves the right to make their own decisions.
Also, about why they have the handmaids conduct the punishments: I think that people have always found it easier to commit crimes under anonymity, especially while under the “mob mentality”. Even more so when you feel that the person you are punishing has committed a criminal act themselves, for example treason, or adultery, or better yet they have offended your religion. It seems that some of the worst crimes can/have been committed in the name of god. Most of the brainwashed women in the program truly believed that they were serving a higher purpose, doing a good deed.
KellyS.
ReplyDeleteStarCaosatgmaildotcom
-It makes me wonder what were the motivations of The Sisters when they agreed to become sisters and why did they not resist being sorted into roles.—
::Carolyn::
I wondered the same thing and then wondered why we join any type of organization like Republican, Demarcate, Green Party, Peace Party and so many others. In Kate’s situation she only had three choices
1.) Handmaid
2.) Call girl
3.) Rebel
Maybe all the Sisters were one of these three at one point and didn’t agree to take the part of the Sisters. Instead they were forced into the position. The sisters didn’t look to happy when they had to come out and yell orders at the women. Suppose all this abuse would cause the women to give up and become Sisters.
KellyS.
ReplyDelete-Why do you think they have the handmaid's conduct the punishments?-
Devushka99
The handmaids in the course of time are ridiculed and punished to become the perfect handmaid. If one of them is not perfect they are considered committing a “sin” and this causes all the handmaids to react.
The handmaids attacked and tore apart the doctor for having sexual relations with one of the handmaids. Not only does the doctor die but the handmaid dies too by lynching. So they are both committing sin in the eyes of everyone watching.
If one of the handmaids goes astray or commits what they think is sin. This allows the handmaids to let out any aggression they have harbored in a ritual like way. Showing how much rage is pent up inside for these women to go threw this grueling task of becoming perfect.
To Question 1
ReplyDeleteI think a mass majority of these womens are feared motivated by the Gilead law to maintain the program. The thought of being sent to the colonies, slavery, being controlled, tortured and death are probably substantual reasons why there motivated.They feel as though they have no choice but to coincide with societies laws if they want to preserve there quality of life.
I think another reason of motivation would be contributing to preserving human existance through housemaids. Some might feel inspired by contributing to society the religous task of preparing handmaids to bear childern cosidering the limited amount of women that are able to have childern for future purposes. other reasons i think would be incentives which gives them authority of choices.There not confinced and told what to do. They have some freedom of choice.
In this corrupted society some women see no way of escaping the grips of government so they take advantage and accepts there roles in society which highly motivates them to proform there duties.
My Response to Question 1:
ReplyDeleteI feel that the reason why the women take part in the controlling of the women is that it is the only way they can have any type of voice or exert any type of power in the society. Women are now considered beneath men in all aspects of the society. Women aren't educated, except for how to behave properly in the society if they step outside their boundaries. Since there is no equality among the women and men then there will be no equality among the women as well. All the women are ranked in to different levels, and color coded, which each one knowing how high or low their status. There is no chance for the women in the different ranks to respect the positions of others, probably due to the men setting each rank of women against each other. There seems to be an attitude among the women such as the Wives and the Aunt's that view themselves better than the Handmaid's and especially the Jezebel's. The Wives and the Aunt's feel that they must keep these lower beings in line in order to keep a pleasant society for themselves. While the men are "protecting" the land they are using the women to keep the peace for them. What better way to make a woman act the way you want by using another woman. Hitler used the same tactic in the concentration camps. He used Jews to escort the other's in to the "shower" to have them gassed. The Nazi's felt that the Jews were more likely to listen to other Jews than the Nazi soldiers. I believe the women, mostly the Aunt's, know that he men will push blame on them if the Handmaid's or other women were to disruption in order. These women have no choice but to comply with the government or be shipped off the the colonies where they know they will die and horrible death. It's better to stay and follow the rules the face sudden death. As for other women, they government's main goal is to brainwash the people and control them. Free will no longer exist, especially if you are a woman, and it would make sense for the women to be on their best behavior for the government and help others do the same.
My Response to gixxerjoe521:
I understand where you are coming from in that since everyone is happy then it should be okay. But then again you don't know if they are really "happy". I fell the government is using brainwashing and terror techniques to strip away the free will of the people. Because they seem happy it doesn't necessary mean they are happy. If a person is depressed and takes a pill to make them "happy" the pill isn't really deleting the person's depression and make them more open to happy thoughts and feelings. The pill is forcing the brain to think that it is more happy. The depression is still there but the forced happy thoughts are taking over. When the person stops taking the pills the depression returns. The government is producing happy pills and the people are having the happy thoughts forced down their throats. If the government takes away the pills and the people regain their since of free will then their happiness will be justified. This questions was pretty hard because it's hard to say if you can miss something that you never had.
My Response to tonicdust:
I didn't think about how she would be raising her child in a world where it isn't as stable as the Gilead with proper food and medicine. However, to Kate it is a better solution than to raise her child in a repressed society. She can teach her child and give her as much as she had when she was growing up in the pre-Gilead times. It is very noble of Kate to risk her like to give her child what the other children won't have. I feel as humans that having control over our lives and actions is what makes up who we are.
---Kendra M.
Serina S.
ReplyDeleteQuestion 2:
Even though I personally don't agree with the ways of the handmaids tale society, I think that if pretty much everyone accepted and agreed with the rules then it would be ok. What makes it so apalling to me is that the women are kind of like brainwashed slaves. They aren't allowed to have their own opinions and choose who they want to spend thier lives with and that everything is chosen for them. I know that in other countries in this day and age, there are still arranged marriages and it is widely accepted there. So just because I dont agree with arranged marriages, it doesn't make them wrong. Also, our country used to be different like slavery and women had no rights. Back then no one thought anything different until people started rising up for a change. Other countries may not like how we run our country but most americans agree with it and accept it. So why would the country in the movie be wrong if people agreed and accepted the way the country was run?
“They have been motivated by far and by doing that, peoples attention is more towards fear than there wants and desires”
ReplyDelete--Gixxxerjoe521
I agree with Joe’s statement, people in Gileadean society have been controlled by the means of media. But not only will they have been controlled by media, they will be controlled by fear of example. By that I mean that through watching the punishments given to other people by committing sin, they would be afraid of committing those same actions
As for your answer to the question, I suppose there could be two frames that you could look at it. One could be through majority vote, and the other through minority vote. The majority support it, probably through motivation of fear as you previously stated. But even if they support it, that still doesn’t mean that they believe its morally correct. They’re probably just doing it to keep themselves alive. One of the strongest human instincts is to stay alive, and that is my view on the question itself.
Otherwise, you had some good valid points though, good analysis.
I just wanted to add to Shea's response:
ReplyDeleteNot only would she not have her child, but if she were to have a daughter there would always be the chance of her daughter becoming a handmaid also. If she were to have a son, he may grow up to be one of the men just like the commander. I know I couldn't live with myself knowing there was a chance my child would become something I would never wish of them.
Adrian C:
I noticed we have a lot of the same views on the society and I agree with you completely. I didn't think about the child if a boy becoming a soldier, I wouldn't want that for him either. But also, wasn't the wife telling Kate to sleep with a soldier so she could get pregnant and not be punished for not being able to concieve? I think that the wife didn't like Kate at all nd wanted her killed because her husband was taking a liking to her and the wife was jealous.
In response to the second question I believe it is wrong that the goverments sucessfull implemation of it's education program and defeat of the rebel movement is accepted by the large majority of the people. As in our world today people will accept the goverments desicions and choices, for whatever beliefs viewpoints they have. The films representation of the extreme structure and forcefull daily routines symbolizes how a goverment influnces the lifestyles we live by. I like what Daniel said about freedom and struggle, my father an product of the 60's always had said " the victory is in the struggle ". By the majority of people accepting defeat and the struggle they also gave up their spirit. By allowing that to happen there is no basis to ever fight back for equality , peace, and freedom. I really like what carolyn said that fear was probably why the majority accepted it. Fear is a manipulative element in contolling the way people think ( i.e. media) . Fear is installed into peoples minds like cable tv.
ReplyDelete- Marcelo Muñoz
Devushkah99: “Why do you think they have the handmaid's conduct the punishments?”
ReplyDeleteWell, my opinion is that they use the handmaids to conduct the punishments so that they can learn through their own actions. They’ll learn what is perceived as “correct” in Gileadean society, and it’ll effectively keep them from committing the same actions or else they’ll be subject through the same punishments.
A question that could pop up though is this: “How can these women beat down and kill a person so ‘passionately’?”
Well for one, it could be from fear that if they don’t effectively carry out the punishment, they could be subject to punishment. Or another could be through use of language where the aunt place emphasis on the death of the handmaid and her fetus, which ignited a collective fury of emotion in some of the pack.
What do you guys think?
Serina S.
ReplyDeleteThat’s a good analysis on why the wife decided to arrange that get together between Kate and the soldier. Not only did she give Kate a chance to keep from going to the colonies, but she also gave herself the power to take that away from her in a moment’s notice. In fact, the wife manipulated a lot of aspects in Kate’s life, such as having information on the well-being and whereabouts of Kate’s daughter.
Adrian- I think that people are products of their enviornment. Violence and emotion conicide. Therefore in the context of the movie and how could those women beat to death someone so viciously... the answer is easy, because all their anger, frusteration was so built up that the first chance they got to let it out they did and killing that man. That was their outlet and and ecape by taking out all the pain on somebody else.
ReplyDeleteMarcelo,
ReplyDeleteI agree with your statement that people are products of their environment. and in the context of the movie, then yes it makes more sense as to why so much collective fury was put into the execution, since it was an outlet for their rage. Thanks
I think kate belives escaping is the right thing to do and is well worth the risk because she has experienced first hand what the handsmaid program does to women. I personally agree with kate's decision because as the saying goes I would rather die on my feet then to live on my knees. The handsmaid program is a synthesis of prostitution and slavery. Kate is just trying to give her daughter what she feels would be best
ReplyDeletechrisgoodlow said...
ReplyDeletedaniel said "I think that no government can hold a citizen against their will, unless there is a criminal record" and I also feel the same way. But even if you were a crimanal you shouldnt be forced to believe in a certain religion. These women were drugged and wher used as sex objects. The only way they were able to live a better life was to give birth for one of the controlling families and those lives were almost just as bad cause you were still a prisoner you just ate and slept a little better.
I agree, even if there was a criminal background that does not give anyone a right to change the way you think and feel.Also, even if you were "lucky" enough to give birth to a controlling family member, how much joy can being a slave bring you?
Adrian- I think that people are products of their enviornment. Violence and emotion conicide.
I half agree with you, i believe the environment that surrounds a person has a big impact on a person, but i dont belive thats the only factor in that sort of situation. Everyone is different; for instance, some of those girls probably enjoyed being there while others like kate detested it.
Steven F.
ReplyDeleteI think that she is makin a good decision in wanting to escape and take care of her kid. Cause i would do the same thing thats my kid not no bodt elses I would wannna be in there lives I wuouldn't want anybody watching my little one.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you alberto cause i think that you should be able to do your own judegement. That the government shouldn't have a say so in what you are doing and its wrong how they are treating the woman in this.
ReplyDeleteLuis T.
ReplyDeleteSo far everyone seems to have very good ideas. I will be contributing my ideas for question one. I believe that the women running the Totalitarian system are women that they, themselves cannot give birth. The control of the other women might have given them the feeling of belonging?
I feel that this system is very cruel. I cannot believe they were so literal minded about the teaching in the bible. Most, if not all religious books are figurative. They took the small passage of the genesis when God the father was mean and they took it to the extreme. After Jesus in the new testament, God is love and forgiving. God loves everybody, not their sins. I feel that they were doing it for the wrong causes. Like Daniel said everyone has the right to raise their children as they wish. No God in any religion says go ahead and destroy my creations. I made you now treat every one else worst in my name???
ls1racer240 at gmail dot com
Question number 3
ReplyDeleteKate is willing to risk her and her future baby's life by escaping from the strict government, and living a better life. Its better for her to risk their lives and possibly die knowing that she at least tried.
I agree with her decision to risk her life and her baby's because at least she'll have know that she tried in the end.
Luis T.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Serina and her answer to question 2. I agree and disagree with you. There is some truth to having everyone accepting the rules to their country, so it must be okay. Did the Handmaid's look happy and accepting? I come from the other side of regular people. My ancestors were treated mostly the same, therefore I can relate. Would you run the system or be in the system?
Regarding the now a day arranged marriages, I have read and met people who say that it works better than how we do it. According to my sources, LOVE comes with time. This is why divorce is so big in USA because we look for the other things that are not good foundations in a relationship first. Most of us look at looks first, before everything else. Also most of us end up old and ugly, and unhappy. =)
Regardless of the situations we live in, everyone SHOULD be FREE to do what they wish. We live in the land of the FREE.
For Kate to risk both their lives, I think, is defiantly worth it. If her child was born into a world where she had to go through what she had gone through, it’s not really living. Kate knows that in order for her and her child to live a normal, equal, and free life she has to risk their lives in the process and she knows that it’s worth it. The government has no right to rid someone of their rights and Kate is doing what most people would do in this situation by trying to escape from that restrictive society that they are being trapped in. I think risking her life was her only choice.
ReplyDelete-Adriana R.
Response to kaynay:
ReplyDeleteyou made a good ponit " what better way to make a woman act the way you want by using other woman".This approach to mulnipulation of these womens are phycological
stratagies that are being used by government to make these womens more prone to an easier acceptance. especially preparing someone to be a handmaid i dont believe
this tasks can be taught more effectively by a man than a women in that society. good one.
Response to Serina S:
I like how you related the question to modern day life and history. But i have to sincerily disagree on your statement"if everyone agrees and accepts the rules then i'll be ok".
I think that if your forced to do something you dont like then its not ok even if the majority of people accepts it and agree's.
History shows a lot of example of people agreeing and accepting ideas on how life should be lived but from the begining of time to now there has been wars fought over those
idea's out of rage and injustice.
I agree with Carolyn in the fact that risking your life for freedom is the right choice because if you don’t have freedom then what do you have? Living life in a cage with strict restrictions and rules isn’t really living.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Marce because these women have a lot of anger inside them because of everything that they have been being put through and the fact that it was a man that they got to take their anger out on, probably also played a part in it because they are being made less than men in this new society that they are being forced to live in.
-Adriana R.
Question #3 Kate believed that it was worth the risk of escaping the Handmaids because she thought of her life and the life of her unborn child. She realized that having a child raised by the Handmaids would be controlled by other women and forced to stay or face. Possibly death. The women were brain washed to believe certain morals and they were strictly followed. The Handmaids lived to please other women and possibly their husbands as in Kates situation. She experienced the life long enough to understand that she could not continue to live that way so her escape was crucial.
ReplyDeleteLastly I believe she felt that it was worth the risk because she knew that her first born child was still alive and she wanted to reunite with her child and raise her new baby in the process.In the end of it all Kate had been through enough with losing her family once so why not take the risk to save her own life and the life of all that she had left which was her unborn child.
Rahsharra Blackmore-Gee
My response is for question # 2 and yes, ten years later in the world with the government succeeding in suppressing the rebels and the handmaids accepting and supporting would still be wrong. It's ethically wrong in general because there's no equality within the people. Women are forced to have someone else's babies "for the greater good" and white men are the only one's that seem to rule along with the women who maintain the program because of the government. The handmaid's especially should not have to live like that. It's just so ethically wrong. People should be able to live their lives as they desire without the government interfering in personal lives.
ReplyDelete@ gixxxerjoe521 said...
"My answer to number 2.
No, because everyone accepts and supports it so that means that they are happy with the program."
But did you wonder that the only reason they might support it is because out of fear? Fear of death and that they have no other choice but to support it? :)
@ Marce said..."By the majority of people accepting defeat and the struggle they also gave up their spirit. By allowing that to happen there is no basis to ever fight back for equality, peace, and freedom."
Does this mean there's no hope for the people of Gilead because they've given up the struggle and by extension their spirit? :( haha
@ Adrian C.: "A question that could pop up though is this: “How can these women beat down and kill a person so ‘passionately’?”
Well for one, it could be from fear that if they don’t effectively carry out the punishment, they could be subject to punishment. Or another could be through use of language where the aunt place emphasis on the death of the handmaid and her fetus, which ignited a collective fury of emotion in some of the pack."
"What do you guys think?"
I'd say it was a combination of all the things. Fear that if they didn't beat down the man, that one of them would get hanged and letting out their anger which they've held on for a while.
I agree with Kay Nay. The women felt the need
ReplyDeleteto control these girls because it was their only means of control truly due to the fact that women are looked at as being beneath men in the society. These older woman wanted power so badly that they took advantage of these young girls and brainwashed them with things they wanted then to believe. They took advantage of being leaders but it was designed to look like the right thing to do.
I agree Serina S.If people are okay with living a life controlled by other people then it is their choice to do so but only under their own will of course. Some people live their lives in different ways and some may feel that they need more discipline than others so they may choose a life style that others may not agree on so yes if it's under a person's own will then fine let the person do as they please.
ReplyDeleteAnswering question #3..
ReplyDeleteYes I believe it would be worth the risk she is willing to take because she would be able to bond with the child and raise it to want freedon and independance. The Gilead took away her freedom, self-identity and her rightful beliefs as a woman to fufill her actions based on being self motivated. It was making women adapt to a forced lifestyle and way of living. So I believe it was worth the risk for her to want a better lifestyle for herself and the child.
The possibility of a life of freedon and self independance is worth the risk. The lifestyle she lives now is very controlled and
poor so it could be imperative she wants better because she is not fufilling her being as a woman. It is not a woman's duty to accept being forced into actions and believing they are beneath men in a society. So most importantly the reason I believe she felt she should escape is it would be worth it to attempt to escape a fair and unjust lifestyle and excercise her rights as a woman to the full potential of her being.
( Excuse me for being a few mins late turning in my assignment professor Boyle my internet connection wasnt responding and I had to wait for it to work. I am using Mozilla Firefox)
@ Lindsay Sakata
ReplyDeleteI agree because just by trying she could have the possibility of living a free uncontrolled lifestyle and could live by choice. The way these women are programmed to think and act, it's like they are living in a cult so yes it is worth the risk to try to escape that situation and want to gain self independance and equality as a woman.
@xoxonanaboo
ReplyDeleteI agree with you becaused she didnt want her child to be born or acustomed to that lifestyle. It is right for her as a mother to want better for her and the unborn child. She is unhappy with that lifestyle so she wouldnt want the same lifestyle for her child. She wants her child to be recognized as a free independant being, and I think she simply wants a better lifestyle for her and the child. Her living conditions were unfair, controlled, and unjust.
I like the zoo comparison that Star made. It fits to recall that at the begging of the movie these women were treated as livestock. They were also instructed to the motto "Don't bite the hand that feeds you." Which I personally believe is sad, as many of you'd agree with me.
ReplyDeleteI'd like to raise this questions which have been in my head, when will the goal be reached? What amount of population are they expecting to have before setting free the handmaids? Or is this going to be a permanent life of style with a new society as we know it?
my answer to #3
ReplyDeleteI agreed no one should have to endure such inhumane living conditions nor allow your punishers to raise your children.
Ashvin I agreed with you;
ReplyDeletethe government as represented by just white males has no business trying to control the way women reproduce just because their wives can't have children. fertile women should not have to pay for their fertilety. the comander also said that they were cleaning up everyone on wellfare that is too much interference and tarany from their part.
Daniel I agreed with you too.
ReplyDeleteI think women were push into that truck marked as livestock after they fail the fertility test. only women able to have children could be USED the rest had no use to them
Answering #3: I believe in Kate's decision on running away and going into hiding from the government, I would've done the same. Except she was very brave to kill the commander, I don't think I would do that.
ReplyDeleteKate was going through so much with the governments rules and beliefs, that she was becoming someone else that she did not want to be. Also, it was hurting her emotionally because she did not have her daughter anymore, her daughter belonged to another family. This is another reason she left into hiding, so she would not lose another baby that is hers. Thus, raise her baby away from the governments rules and beliefs that destroyed many lives.
All in all, Kate's decision with escaping from her so-called home was the best thing she could have done because everyone has a right. Thus, her right was to be able to live freely and raise her baby. I think it was worth the risk of possible death. Also it is worth it than living somewhere miserable. Plus, she had help from the soldiers, even they thought what the government was doing was outrageous. Who knows maybe they helped other women escape from the government and Kate isn't the only one living on her own.
I have to say I agree with Rahsharra Blackmore that the women were brain washed into thinking that what the government was doing was "okay". Thus, I agree with Rahsharra that Kate escaping from the government was right because her unborn baby was the only family she had and why not take the risk. Kate has already gone through so much that it would be worth the try than not trying.
Amy Gomez
In answering question 3, I believe that even though Kate knows the risks at hand of fleeing the Republic of Gilead, she is correct in doing so for the sake of freedom and the opportunity of raising her unborn child without any interferences from the government. As I mentioned, Kate is aware of whats at stake if she gets caught leaving Gilead, first hand, due to her previous attempt earlier in the film of crossing the border, which resulted in her getting captured, her husband getting shot and her daughter getting abducted. However I think Kate's risk is worth it because it allows her the chance to go back to living her former life (prior to the Handmaid drama), enabling her to raise her unborn child how she wants, and just having freedom in general. She would also not have to worry about her unborn son or daughter having to conform to being a dictator or a Handmaid when they grow up. If I was in the same situation, I would take any chance I'd get to escape the feeling of being in purgatory(Gilead) and gain my freedom. Thus, I believe her moral imperative is correct in doing whats best for her and her future.-------Adrian R.
ReplyDeleteAdrian C said "So to look at it from a distance to get the bigger picture, the government of Gilead is in a totalitarian state, and woman are treated as inferior beings in society. They are widely used by the government for reproduction and other positions that offer servitude to higher beings in society (like commanders for example)."
ReplyDeleteThis is a good example of how inhumane Gilead society is. Reading this statement, who wouldn't want to escape this stronghold that the commanders and the rest of the Gilead Government have created? This example that Adrian C gives us is a perfect example that I would say supports Kate's decision to flee Gilead. Good point..
Although I did not answer question 2, I agree with those of you which said they support the program, granted the majority of the population support it. The way it was set up in the film was basically by brainwashing the Handmaids into a cult and taking it from there.
ReplyDeleteLuis T.
ReplyDeleteI agree with the most of you that if they all thought it was right to have the handsmaid's then it was alright and ethical to have them. Power is in numbers and if they all agreed, then it was ok.
I sent you aan email and i spoke to you today and you said that if I postmy blog today you will give me full credit......
ReplyDeleteI am responding to question #3
I blieve that Kate has every right to want to escape even though she could be facing death.The society the Kate was forced to live in was morally corrupt, and because Kate was not raised in this type of society here mind set was alot like our society today. She believed all women are born free and equal, which is one of our countries founded belives. I agree so much with Kate and if I were in her position I would probably do the same thing.I would not have wanted my chid to grow up in a society where she was inferior to anybody let alone a man.so most definitly i would have been willing to die if it meant my child would be able to live free.
Daniel & star I agree with you both. The phrase don't bite the hand that feeds you refers to a dog bitting it's master's hand, that right there lets you know that the women in this film were seen as nothing more then animals. I thank God that this is just a movie and that our society values every person, place or thing despite race, color, or crede or aleast thats our intent....*****
ReplyDeleteI like the point that Monique gives about comparing the way that Kate used to live and the way they are forcing her to live. All that Kate used to do, as well as the other women, all was taken away in a blink. As examples in the movie were the magazines, and the late night parties. They were brain washing them, and one of the tools they were using, besides drugs, was the television. The television has such such impact in our society, most of the commercials we see sell us an image that we'd like to reach. So let's think about what was presented to them on the televisions.
ReplyDeleteQuestion #3
ReplyDeleteI think that Kate has every right to want to escape. She's put in a position where she must abide by the new rules of the world in order to survive. Kate is not only courageous, but she is also very wise because she actually has a chance to give her child a life of freedom, something that the other women abiding by the rules may nerver get. Although she may be killed in the process of escaping, a life of freedom is better than having to witness the hanging of innocent women and the sexual abuse that she has to endure everytime the commander wants to have sexual relations. The only peace of mind that Kate has is to escape and try to live a life away from the madness that she has endured. I agree with Kate that the risk of dying for freedom is well worth it because living a life of misery is unhealthy. No one wants to live a life that is chosen for them, especially under the circumstances that the women in the movie were in. Even though Kate can be caught because she did kill the Commander and the fetus is the limo driver's, not the commander's, Kate still has hope,which is a good sign that she might make it.
If I was in Kate's position I would try to escape without any hesitation because living a life of misery is a life that isn't worth living. If i had to go through the physical and mental abuse that Kate went through I would have no doubt in my mind that escaping would be the best next alternative. I support Kate's escaping 100 % because people should have the right to live a life of freedom. A life any other way would seem odd. Once you're used to a certain lifestyle, it's hard to try to adjust to another one, especially if it was the life of Kate's.
Lexygomez
ReplyDeleteI agree with the comment that she posted. She pointed out some vital information about how the soldiers were in Kate's favor and that a life of misery is worth trying to escape. No one wants to ne miserable as lexygomez points out. The only thing that I see differntly is that if I had to kill the commander in order to have a better chance of escaping I would do it and I would do it anyways because the commander violated Kate and in the real world he committed rape. That's the only thing that I disagree on with lexygomez.
I agree with Daniel's comment. He stated how he felt that Kate's decision was reasonable and that no one has the power to prevent someone from living a live of freedom. I agree with him 100% on the issue of freedom. Daniel also points out that Kate has the right to raise her child any way that she sees fit, which i agree with. Parents should be able to raise their child according to their views and they shouldn't have to be afraid that the government will punish them for wanting to raise their child in their own way.
ReplyDeleteIn response to question number three. I feel that Kate believes the risk is worth sacrificing her life for because she has a daughter out there that she would like to reunite with and raise on her own. My guess is that she would die for her child. In my personal opinion, I know that I would die for my child. Yes she is currently carrying a child inside of her. But she was basically impregnated against her will or would have been impregnated against her will until she decided to sleep with the soldier, Nick, who helped free her. She ended up falling in love with Nick which is another reason that I believe that she sacrificed her life to be free for the simple fact that she was carrying his child and she wanted to raise her children away from that cruelty with him in a life of freedom. I also have to agree with Lexy that she will probably end up living miserably and for a long time but she will definately be living free in her mind and not brainwashed.
ReplyDeleteHi Everyone,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the continued interesting discussion.
I just want to be clear that you're all understanding question 2: you're imagining a world in which the program of indoctrination - the constant barrage of t.v. messages, the schools in which handmaid's are told they're good only for reproduction and that's their place in the world, that other women are superior and that all men are superior to all women, etc. - has been successful. Many of you are referring to it as "brainwashing."
Is it possible for anyone to morally agree to put themselves into slavery? Even if they're convinced that they are natural slaves?
Prof. Boyle Chris accidentally took my syllabus! Here is my Continue response and because the internet system was down!
ReplyDeleteJanelle R.
After reading Janelle's response to my comment and how she did not agree with me saying I would not kill the commander. I realized after reading Janelle's opinion on, killing the commander because he violated Kate and in our real world he committed rape. I going to have to change my mind, that I would kill the commander, if he had raped me. Therefore, I agree with Janelle's opinion. Thank you Janelle!
Amy Gomez
Chris Goodlow
ReplyDeleteI agree with Chris on his opinion that it seem like in the movie they only showed white men and women dominating the people and society. They never showed what they did with people from different ethnicity. Like for example, they never showed how they treated the black women, Latino women, asian women and etc. Remember how the white men and women treated their own race? Just image how they treated other races or cultures. This to me raises more questions and concerns, thus makes this movie more controversial.
Amy Gomez
In response to Kay Nay and the role of the women in society. I agree the only way for them to have any voice or power in the society is to help control the women. I also believe that most of the women who are helping to contribute to the laws of Gilead have already been brainwashed into believing that what they are doing is right. a lot of the women running the Handmaids program seem to also be the wives of the men with power therefore I belive that those are some of the reasons that they help control the program.
ReplyDeleteI think that Kate believes that it is worth it to attempt to escape because it would give that child a better chance at life than the environment that she was living in. I don't think that she would want to raise a child in the environment that believes that a woman's only purpose is to have children. So for example say that Kate gave birth to a female, that child would grow up not knowing her mother and it would create a life that would become dependent on the procreation of the "perfect" person who doesn't question anything in life. If she had a male child he would grow up thinking that women are to obey there husbands like some form of property. So if I were Kate I would agree with what she did by trying to escape from that type of life.
ReplyDeleteMiguel: So far everyone seems to have very good ideas. I will be contributing my ideas for question one. I believe that the women running the Totalitarian system are women that they, themselves cannot give birth. The control of the other women might have given them the feeling of belonging?
ReplyDeleteSo in responce to miguel I think that the women who ran this place was more about maybe being the original women in this instance and not wanting to become or end up like the handmaid's. Maybe it was a group of couples that all came together and decided that they didn't like the way things were going in the world that they were living in so they decided to change it and keep the women who were the wives for just that being a wife and more for show than anything else
In response to devushka99.. I think that they have the handmaid's perform the punishments to the other women to try and break them down. I think that by abusing their fellow handmaid's they will not try to attempt any of the wrong doing that certain person committed
ReplyDelete